Wednesday, February 14, 2007

Compare and Contrast

Chris Clarke, former Catholic:

In honor of recent events: A brief story about an actual Catholic. Well, technically, two actual Catholics. Because I was Roman Catholic back then as well, when Benjamin Cobos was my homeroom teacher. He was a Catholic priest. He was one of the finest men I have ever met.

Frank J., practicing Catholic:

[Amanda Marcotte] made a fool of herself and John Edwards, and now she has some rants up playing herself the stereotypical victim to all those stronger, mean men out there. It's disgusting, really. A woman with self-esteem would admit her mistake and take the consequences... not try and dodge them by hiding behind rantings about a "patriarchy." I know many strong women in my life, and these "feminists" do nothing more than make a virtue out of weakness. Women have gained too much over too long a period to have to suffer the likes of such fools.

It is a sad, sad thing when the former Christians make better Christians than the actual ones.

But I am not done with Frank J. Oh, no, not by a long shot. Did you know "the consequences" of making a fool of yourself--I'm feeling charitable and will grant Frank's interpretation of events for the moment--include an inbox filled with emails like:

It’s just too bad your mother didn’t abort you. You are nothing more than a filthy mouth slut. I bet a couple of years in Iraq being raped and beaten daily would help you appreciate America a little. Need a plane ticket ?

I make a fool of myself every day and I don't get email like that. If ever I do, I'll be sure to share it with you, so Frank can complain that I'm whining.

Yes indeed, that is some swell bearing false witness you have going on there, Frank--the way you mischaracterize Amanda's announcement that she resigned her position as a "rant," for one, but that's not the star of this show. No, the star is your boldfaced lie that Amanda was whining. I notice you don't quote anything to back that up, Frank--probably because you couldn't find anything that would fit. Certainly this comment of Amanda's makes a liar out of you:

I’m serious, I love hatemail. While it’s obvious to me that Bill Donohue doesn’t have a spiritual or loving bone in his body and only uses Christianity as an excuse to hate women and shill for the Republican party, it’s not obvious to everyone since he does demonstrate some semblance—at times—of an ability to ineptly use dog whistles and code words. But the people who lift their heads when the dog whistle is blown show no such restraint. Turn on the light and the cockroaches scatter, etc.

But let's NOT be honest. Let's just manipulate every complaint by a known feminist until we've forced it to fit into one of our ignorant strawfeminist templates. Which shall we use?--We've got "There They Go with Their Love of Victimhood Again" or "Ha, Ha, Frothing-at-the-Mouth Hysterical Feminazis Need To Just Chill Already." Say, I know! Let's just USE BOTH.

Really, Frank. When did you become such a sad little hack?

More to the point, when did you become so adept at ignoring the teachings of Christ? Because here's what I thought would happen when I clicked your trackbacked link from Pandagon: I thought what would happen was that you would express horror at the people who invoked your God, your religion, to write things like:

Catholics are concerned about killing unborn children, you stupid bitch. Chop away if it suits you, but we don’t have to accept that as moral. That’s why it’s called a religion. Look into it.

And:

Amanda,
after reading your vile screed against Catholics and the Holy Spirit, I just had to see what you looked like. (I envisioned you eyebrow-less, with no visible pupils, and a blank, dead stare.) I see I was correct about the blank, dead stare, but other than that you’re not too bad. I then thought maybe you were mad at God (and by proxy Catholics) for making you ugly, but now I’m figuring you’re just mad at him for making you a woman.

You remember how Jesus was always calling sinners ugly and refusing to 'sociate with 'em because of that? Wait, that wasn't the Bible--that was Mean Girls. I got confused for a minute. Say, what's this?

Problem with women like you, you just need a good fucking from a real man! Living in Texas myself, I know you haven’t found that real Texan yet. But once your liberal pro feminist ass gets a real good fucking, you might see the light. Until then, enjoy your battery operated toys b/c most real men wouldn’t want to give you the fucking you deserve b/c the shit that would come out of you ears.

Although this author doesn't explicitly identify as Christian, so perhaps we should give him the benefit of the doubt--just like you did with Amanda, Frank.

You couldn't stand up and say, "Amanda, I disagree with your positions vehemently, and I was gravely offended by what you wrote about Catholicism--but I am also sorry that some Catholics felt sending you rape threats was an appropriate way to defend their faith, and I want you to know that not all of us support that behavior."

You couldn't do that. Instead, you taunted Amanda for doing something she didn't even do--whining. Instead, you mischaracterized what she wrote. Instead, you lied to your readers for a few cheap laughs. Instead, you took the opportunity to kick someone when she was down, just like Jesus was always doing.

And that says all I need to know about your so-called faith, right there.

UPDATE: Were I blogging the Frank way, the hack way, I might take a moment to note disgustedly that the most ostensibly fervent pro-Israel, anti-anti-Semitic right-wing goybloggers were only too happy to get on board the Amanda-bashing bus with Bill Donohue, a vile bigot given to such remarks as:

Who really cares what Hollywood thinks? All these hacks come out there. Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. It's not a secret, OK? And I'm not afraid to say it. That's why they hate this movie. It's about Jesus Christ, and it's about truth. It's about the messiah.

Hollywood likes anal sex. They like to see the public square without nativity scenes. I like families. I like children. They like abortions. I believe in traditional values and restraint. They believe in libertinism. We have nothing in common. But you know what? The culture war has been ongoing for a long time. Their side has lost.

You have got secular Jews. You have got embittered ex-Catholics, including a lot of ex-Catholic priests who hate the Catholic Church, wacko Protestants in the same group, and these people are in the margins.

But I am not blogging the Frank way, the Darleen way, the we-only-support-Israel-because-Bush-sort-of-does*, but-if-ever-the-Palestinians-find-oil-and-promise-us-a-sweet-deal-on-it, or-alternately, just-say-something-mean-about-Amanda, you-can-kiss-our-support-goodbye, wingnut hack sort of way--because I don't blog like that, I will just say that I think it is perfectly possible to be angry with both Donohue AND Amanda, because it is. Duh.

Of course, if that were so--if the boo-Amanda crowd were equally horrified by the anti-Semitism of Bill Donohue--one might expect to find one or two posts denouncing Bill Donohue mixed in with all the anti-Amanda hysteria--but one might only expect that if one had just connected to the internet for the first time yesterday.

*Except when he doesn't, but I notice those posts of Meryl's do not get nearly so much attention on the right.

19 comments:

gennimcmahon said...

I quote a bumper sticker from my sister's ride: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, for they are so unlike your Christ"--Mahatma Ghandi

That pretty sums up all I can add to an excellent post.

Heraclitus said...

Reporter: "What do you think of Western Civilization?"

Gandhi: "I think it would be a good idea."

j said...

Ghandi was a pedophile.

ilyka said...

Thread drift. This post is not about Gandhi. Please: Do not drown me in this sea of mental retardation.

ilyka said...

Ash-canned your last comment for thread drift, j. (You can't say you weren't warned.) Also for misspelling "Gandhi," and for just generally contributing nothing of value whatsoever.

Helen said...

Sorry, but I was caught by this:

Until then, enjoy your battery operated toys b/c most real men wouldn’t want to give you the fucking you deserve b/c the shit that would come out of you ears.

Leave it to the redneck Texan hick to stick it up the wrong hole.

I LOVE how they go into affirmative action issues on the comments section at IMAO-as though they have a SINGLE FUCKING IDEA how it feels to be just as qualified as your male colleague but get paid £10k less. Typical-it goes into "beat up the feminist" to "don't they know how good they already have it?"

Anonymous said...

Poor j. He gets edited and then gets angry. I can hear him steaming from here! The injustice! The drama! j has nothing left but to resort to tired attacks!

Move along, j. You clearly don't know how to play in the big kid sandbox.

PS-hating is easy. Dealing with you is hard.

gennimcmahon said...

(lashing self with wet noodle, and writing "Gandhi" five hundred times in blood) Deepest apologies for engaging in the magick ritual that raised j from the ethers to hijack and pester.

Isn't the "My, you seem so ANGRY" argument so old and tired that it's in a rest home now? As a matter of fact, shouldn't the whole idea that if a smart woman bucks the system she should be controlled by threats of rape and violence itself wheezing and gasping at this point, too?

What kind of person can look at the things said to Amanda and not be angry? Or wounded? Only a person entirely without a soul, methinks. It is horrifying. It is not modeled upon Christ, and I would think that if there were ever proof of evil, it rests with those who so pervert the teachings of their purported messiah.

Furthermore, "You need the shit fucked out of you" and related commentary isn't criticism. It's vitriolic hate. HUGE difference, there, j, but apparently in contemplating it, you fell into the yawning canyon between the two.

JackGoff said...

J, you obviously haven't been reading your own comments, meep. And you want to talk about hate? If you're the same j from pandagon, I haven't seen much of anything else from you.

So yeah, when you find away to write better copy than "The whole angry bitch schtick of yours is old", then glass houses and stones, dear friend. Toodle-oo!

JackGoff said...

when you find away

Should be "until you find a way"

Man, the coffee's wearing off...

ilyka said...

I've deleted the latest from j, who reads suspiciously like--well, never mind. I'll just have ALL of them over here if I say it.

j, honey, listen up:

You know and I know that my point, which is that Frank's behavior in that post isn't actually Christian, is not debatable. You seem to think that therefore you can pull the classic maneuvers of attacking me, attacking my commenters, attacking Amanda some more (because that will really help you make your case), etc., and I'll just put up with it like a dumbass.

Well, no, sparky, I won't. Next time just send all your hate in an email, you vapid thing.

j said...

Aren't you precious! Prevent someone from posting and then personally attack them. You see any differing point of view as an attack. And, no, I'm not j who posts on pandagon. Your paronoia goes hand in hand with your over the top rants and indiscriminate attack on anyone who doesn't march in lock step with you.

ilyka said...

1. I didn't even know there WAS a j at Pandagon, so shut the fuck up.

2. For an example in how to disagree without being a fucking troll, see here. See me throwing a fit over that comment? Or deleting it? That's right, you don't. What do you suppose the difference is?

belledame222 said...

J: "I'll pray for you."

belledame222 said...

p.s. am you Spartacus? I are.

Lesley said...

And, no, I'm not j who posts on pandagon. Your paronoia goes hand in hand with your over the top rants

Dear j,

I believe the person who suggested you might also be the same commenter as one named j over at Pandagon was jackgoff. Now, try as hard as I might, I am having difficulty changing the combination of the letters in j-a-c-k-g-o-f-f to come up with i-l-y-k-a.

Since you seem so disappointed with the content here, you might like to keep in mind that it's a big internets. There are many, many blogs to choose from; some of which you're bound to be happier with. Perhaps you're the type of person who regularly writes actors to tell them how much you hate their latest TV show and how they should do something you'd like better rather than just changing the channel, but I'd like to think you're not that ridiculous. Only time will tell.

Yours, etc.

Lesley

belledame222 said...

"and such small portions!"

JackGoff said...

Now, try as hard as I might, I am having difficulty changing the combination of the letters in j-a-c-k-g-o-f-f to come up with i-l-y-k-a.

Goddamnit, now I'm Ilyka's sockpuppet. How many hands I got fumbling up my backside anyway? ;-)

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